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(26-12-2017, 09:22 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: How about some skepticism on blockchain?
https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/bitcoin-b...ues/18019/
At the current state, blockchain is unable to be revolutionary. It hogged too much resources to do so little.
For a typical company, it is still much cheaper and faster to open an account with a bank to do business.
The decentralized concept is probably the most deceptive since the bulk of blockchain computation is owned by a few pools of computers. Ironic isn't it.
Last but not least, with such a huge gyration of cryptocurrency value, they cannot be used for transactions. A company that accepts cryptocurrency for payment may be staring at high losses when the value drops the next day.
So, at the current state, cryptocurrency is just like the tulips mania 500 years ago. Cryptocurrency is only useful for speculation now.
yup well said...
Blockchain just another "software platform" for electronic transactions. Banks already have their own platforms for transactions. Whether or not they want to use Blockchain will be a cost and efficiency equation. It is just another platform.
I am actually quite surprised they allowed futures trading in Bitcoin. But then again, the Americans are still allowing a resurgence in the synthetic CDO market that was responsible for the last GFC so go figure....
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(26-12-2017, 09:50 AM)BlueKelah Wrote: yup well said...
Blockchain just another "software platform" for electronic transactions. Banks already have their own platforms for transactions. Whether or not they want to use Blockchain will be a cost and efficiency equation. It is just another platform.
I am actually quite surprised they allowed futures trading in Bitcoin. But then again, the Americans are still allowing a resurgence in the synthetic CDO market that was responsible for the last GFC so go figure....
Wall Street goes to where there is money to be made - That is the default behavior, so where is the surprise? What is the best way to profit from insiders who are looking to cash out, and outsiders who are eager to go in? Ans: Become the middle man where you win (whether it is heads or tails)
The investment banks also first started out as the middle-men for synthetic CDO markets, but eventually the temptation to hold the actual product became too much with accelerating profits from these packaged products booming with the housing boom. How this will evolve is anyone's guess.
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26-12-2017, 01:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 26-12-2017, 02:00 PM by BlueKelah.)
(26-12-2017, 11:08 AM)weijian Wrote: (26-12-2017, 09:50 AM)BlueKelah Wrote: yup well said...
Blockchain just another "software platform" for electronic transactions. Banks already have their own platforms for transactions. Whether or not they want to use Blockchain will be a cost and efficiency equation. It is just another platform.
I am actually quite surprised they allowed futures trading in Bitcoin. But then again, the Americans are still allowing a resurgence in the synthetic CDO market that was responsible for the last GFC so go figure....
Wall Street goes to where there is money to be made - That is the default behavior, so where is the surprise? What is the best way to profit from insiders who are looking to cash out, and outsiders who are eager to go in? Ans: Become the middle man where you win (whether it is heads or tails)
The investment banks also first started out as the middle-men for synthetic CDO markets, but eventually the temptation to hold the actual product became too much with accelerating profits from these packaged products booming with the housing boom. How this will evolve is anyone's guess.
true it shouldn't be a surprise that Bitcoin was allowed on the futures exchanges. Perhaps there is a loophole in regulation there, or there is just no regulation regarding digital products/commodities. I was surprised as Yellen did say that Bitcoin was highly speculative asset and didn't constitute legal tender.
Though the futures trading has started, the FED is still keeping an eye on it, according to them at current market cap Bitcoin is no threat to the larger financial system even if it collapsed to zero. I think they will probably intervene if the value goes beyond 1 trillion. But looks like it might become unlikely as Bitcoin has lost like a third of its value this week. in most markets this would be considered a crash already.
My guess is that with US raising interest rates and tightening and other worldwide central banks warning against it, Bitcoin fever likely to go out in the next half year. Will be interesting to see if it continue to sink below 50%. All those futures traders must be short selling like crazy now. Probably someone somewhere got the hackers to shut down YouBit and cause this crash after establishing a big short position.
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https://www.ccn.com/south-korean-exchang...this-year/
Youbit Files for Bankruptcy After Second Hack This Year
Tuesday morning, the Seoul-based Youbit published an announcement informing users that a hacker had successfully breached the exchange’s hot wallet, absconding with 17 percent of its assets.
This was the second time that Youbit had suffered a hack this year. In April, the exchange suffered a theft of nearly 4,000 bitcoins in a cyber attack that South Korean authorities allege was perpetrated by North Korea, according to a Reuters report.
Youbit said that it beefed up its security policies following the April hack and that the other 83 percent of the exchange’s funds were stored safely in a cold wallet. Nevertheless, Yaipan, the company that operates the exchange, filed for bankruptcy on Tuesday and halted trading on the platform.
According to the announcement, the exchange has marked down customer assets to 75 percent of their market value, and customers can withdraw them immediately. The company said it will repay the remainder of the funds at the conclusion of the bankruptcy proceedings, by which time it will have filed an insurance claim and sold the company’s operating rights.
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26-12-2017, 05:14 PM
(This post was last modified: 26-12-2017, 05:18 PM by Wildreamz.)
(26-12-2017, 09:22 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: How about some skepticism on blockchain?
https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/bitcoin-b...ues/18019/
At the current state, blockchain is unable to be revolutionary. It hogged too much resources to do so little.
For a typical company, it is still much cheaper and faster to open an account with a bank to do business.
The decentralized concept is probably the most deceptive since the bulk of blockchain computation is owned by a few pools of computers. Ironic isn't it.
Last but not least, with such a huge gyration of cryptocurrency value, they cannot be used for transactions. A company that accepts cryptocurrency for payment may be staring at high losses when the value drops the next day.
So, at the current state, cryptocurrency is just like the tulips mania 500 years ago. Cryptocurrency is only useful for speculation now.
The link is mainly a criticism of Bitcoin and not the Blockchain technology itself. For example, in the 1990s, the Internet was nascent, not many people are connected to the internet, and even if they are, they are limited by Bandwidth (only land lines and only 56k) and Input Devices (only PCs). Hence, people are limited by both accessibility of the Internet and what they can do over the Internet.
20 Years later, many of the problems have been solved. We now have very cheap mobile plans and mobile devices that are intuitive even to non-tech users; we have a developed payment systems (credit cards, internet banking) and logistic infrastructures (DHL, FedEX etc.) already in place, which allow new business models like omni-channel commerce, sharing economy, software economy (including CRM, HRM, ERP etc.), cloud computing, social media, connected TVs, mobile banking etc. to flourish. Honestly, I feel that we are still at the first innings of the modern digital economy.
Back to Blockchain, it still feels like the 1990s. What it unlocks is the ability for anybody to share anything (music, movies, in game items, land deeds, money, commodities, services, contracts, proof of stake etc.) of value over the internet without escrow. We still have many things to work out (such as security, scalability, efficiency. etc.) But technical obstacles can often be resolved with hard work, Moore's Law and time.
Watch this space.
PS: Cryptocurrency wise, I am agnostic, and have zero interest in speculating.
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26-12-2017, 07:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 26-12-2017, 07:55 PM by specuvestor.)
(18-12-2017, 10:56 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: https://webb-site.com/articles/bitcoinponzi.asp
Let's try to explain, in simple terms, why Bitcoin and other digital pseudo-currencies will fail. Bitcoin is the World's first distributed, decentralised Ponzi scheme. No single operator is running it, and everyone has a chance to participate in it, but its value is determined purely by the weight of money coming into it and the willingness of holders to sell it. Like any Ponzi scheme, earlier participants came in at lower cost, and are now receiving much of the billions of dollars (yes, really) that newcomers are putting in.
Some members of the scheme spend their time telling their friends how they should get in on this Big New Thing and how much money they have already made "on paper", or more accurately "on screen". If your Bitcoins are now "worth" more than you paid for them then you may feel successful, but if you haven't yet cashed out as much as you've put in, then you're still a potential victim. On the other hand, if you've got your cash back or more, then you're already a paid-up and paid-out member of the Bitcoin Ponzi Scheme. And unlike Bernie Madoff, you're probably not going to jail, although some of the self-serving promoters of Bitcoin are skating dangerously close to that if it can be proven that they knew their claims were false and/or were simultaneously selling. Also, unlike the beneficiaries who cashed out of Madoff's funds before he crashed, you probably won't have to pay anything back. That's the beauty of a decentralised Ponzi scheme.
Most of the larger participants will privately admit, if only to themselves, that Bitcoin is a bubble, but they also believe that they can get out before it crashes, or don't much care because they have already cashed out far more than they put in. But just remember this: Bitcoin is essentially a zero-sum game. At any point in time, the cumulative sum of all net cash put in by losers will equal the cumulative sum of all net cash taken out by winners (excluding mining costs).
(26-12-2017, 09:22 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: How about some skepticism on blockchain?
https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/bitcoin-b...ues/18019/
At the current state, blockchain is unable to be revolutionary. It hogged too much resources to do so little.
For a typical company, it is still much cheaper and faster to open an account with a bank to do business.
The decentralized concept is probably the most deceptive since the bulk of blockchain computation is owned by a few pools of computers. Ironic isn't it.
Last but not least, with such a huge gyration of cryptocurrency value, they cannot be used for transactions. A company that accepts cryptocurrency for payment may be staring at high losses when the value drops the next day.
So, at the current state, cryptocurrency is just like the tulips mania 500 years ago. Cryptocurrency is only useful for speculation now.
Nice summary Yeo 
Between the 2 I think Blockchain has more value but even so, though innovative, the impact would probably be like 3D printing or 3D movie, not revolutionary like internet
I knew bitcoin will be crazy because of the limited supply. But I didn't expect it to be THAT crazy. Millenias like the young people before them, love liberal anti-establishment ideas. Even the internet which was truly life changing and supposedly the epitome of freedom, turn out to be not so free after all. Because content is not neutral. There is no such thing as utopian freedom once there is vested interest
Even if bitcoin becomes "currency", it will be controlled by some vested party. Look at how Linux, android or Java evolved.
It is indeed like a pyramid. The early movers will reap all the benefit from those below them. The idea to restrict the production is quite genius but it does not betray the fact that it is castle in the air.
Before you speak, listen. Before you write, think. Before you spend, earn. Before you invest, investigate. Before you criticize, wait. Before you pray, forgive. Before you quit, try. Before you retire, save. Before you die, give. –William A. Ward
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Bitcoin Breaches $6,000 as Cryptocurrency Exodus Accelerates
By Eric Lam
February 6, 2018, 10:25 AM GMT+8 Updated on February 6, 2018, 4:49 PM GMT+8
From Crypto
The rout in cryptocurrencies deepened on Tuesday, sending Bitcoin to its lowest level since November, as worries over tighter U.S. regulation gave traders another reason to sell after a brutal start to 2018.
The biggest virtual currency sank 16 percent to $5,981 at 8 a.m. London time, according to Bloomberg composite pricing. Alternative coins Ripple, Ether and Litecoin also tumbled at least 16 percent.
The slump followed a Bloomberg News report that America’s two top market watchdogs are planning to ask Congress to consider federal oversight for digital-currency trading platforms, many of which have been operating in a regulatory gray zone. Chiefs of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and Securities and Exchange Commission will appear together at a Senate Banking Committee hearing to discuss cryptocurrencies on Tuesday.
More details in https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...asset-rout
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Bitcoin Rises as South Korea Talks ‘Active’ Support for Trading
By Eric Lam
February 20, 2018, 4:42 PM GMT+8 Updated on February 20, 2018, 8:17 PM GMT+8
Bitcoin’s stunning rebound continued on Tuesday, with the world’s largest digital token extending February’s gains after South Korean regulators signaled they will actively support what they called “normal” cryptocurrency trading.
In a further shift from earlier rhetoric -- which hinted at an outright ban of cryptocurrency exchanges -- Choe Heungsik, governor of South Korea’s Financial Supervisory Service, told reporters he wants to see normalized trading of digital assets, and said the FSS is making efforts to do that. Bitcoin rose 3.8 percent to $11,502 at 7:15 a.m. in New York, heading for a one-month high, according to prices compiled by Bloomberg.
The move takes Bitcoin to almost double its recent intraday low of $5,922 on Feb. 6, while rival coins also advanced, with Litecoin jumping 9.7 percent. Cryptocurrencies had plunged across the board through much of January amid mounting concern regulators would crack down on the burgeoning industry, but they’ve found an apparent bottom after some well-received Senate testimony from U.S. officials and a more conciliatory tone in South Korea.
More details in https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...or-trading
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(20-02-2018, 08:35 PM)cyclone Wrote: Bitcoin Rises as South Korea Talks ‘Active’ Support for Trading
By Eric Lam
February 20, 2018, 4:42 PM GMT+8 Updated on February 20, 2018, 8:17 PM GMT+8
Bitcoin’s stunning rebound continued on Tuesday, with the world’s largest digital token extending February’s gains after South Korean regulators signaled they will actively support what they called “normal” cryptocurrency trading.
In a further shift from earlier rhetoric -- which hinted at an outright ban of cryptocurrency exchanges -- Choe Heungsik, governor of South Korea’s Financial Supervisory Service, told reporters he wants to see normalized trading of digital assets, and said the FSS is making efforts to do that. Bitcoin rose 3.8 percent to $11,502 at 7:15 a.m. in New York, heading for a one-month high, according to prices compiled by Bloomberg.
The move takes Bitcoin to almost double its recent intraday low of $5,922 on Feb. 6, while rival coins also advanced, with Litecoin jumping 9.7 percent. Cryptocurrencies had plunged across the board through much of January amid mounting concern regulators would crack down on the burgeoning industry, but they’ve found an apparent bottom after some well-received Senate testimony from U.S. officials and a more conciliatory tone in South Korea.
More details in https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...or-trading
Seems like the last crash was not sufficient enough in $ value and contagion effect to make the south korean gov. think twice. Well looks like the speculation is now on again and possibly an even bigger bubble this time round.
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