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(06-05-2012, 11:12 PM)KopiKat Wrote: (06-05-2012, 09:55 PM)Temperament Wrote: Do you mean even i put in an overnight Q @ $3.98 it may not be done because of:-
Quote:-
"during the 5pm - 5:05pm matching period, if you'd been watching the 'live' prices, you'd have seen the Buy/Sell Q holding well @ $3.98/8.
The risk is that the buy/sell Qs are dynamic, it may either go up or down (so, better not be too aggressive and set a worst case sell price you are comfortable with). If more sellers appear at a lower price, the Q can drop to say, $3.95/5 and get matched at that price (but if you'd Q'd to sell @ $3.96, then yours won't get done). However, on that day, it stayed at $3.98/8 till matching was closed and even if you'd placed a sell order $3.96, you'd still get the $3.98 price!  "
Unquote:-
IF so, then overnight Q of $3.98 is over ride by after 5 pm trading matching order Q @ lower price. So overnight Q is no match for after 5 PM matching Q lower prices. Am i correct to say that? If i am correct, no wonder sometimes my overnight sell order Q is not done even my selling price match the after market price selling price.
i can understand about overnight selling Q Price matching pre-opening price
Is after 5 pm closing matching selling prices works the same way as pre- opening matching prices? If so is there any advantage of overnight Q? 
Yes, my understanding of how the queue system works is PRICE gives the highest priority followed by TIME
ie. even if you'd been the first person to put in an overnight Q to sell @ $3.98, anyone can still Jump ahead of you in the pre-open or pre-close matching period by putting in a lower sell price.
My worst experience had been seeing my sell order partially done just before 5pm ie. the rest are now 1st in the sell Q and then seeing the rest not done during the matching period even though there were transactions done at the same price!
BTW, there are other kind of priority issues about overnight Q depending on your brokerage's system and whether you place it online on your own or through your broker. You'll have to check with your broker if this is important to you. 
i think price over-ride time is fair only if there is risk in selling at lower price then the current price after 5 pm. It's O. K. for me because actually i am a "long time" trader. Usually if i don't get the price i want, i won't B or S. Of course if i am desperate to B/S i won't wait. Thanks any way. 
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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(06-05-2012, 11:12 PM)KopiKat Wrote: My worst experience had been seeing my sell order partially done just before 5pm ie. the rest are now 1st in the sell Q and then seeing the rest not done during the matching period even though there were transactions done at the same price!
Not possible. Unless u had entered sell orders in batches before 5pm, so some done before 5 and remainder may not be 1st in sell Q for matching.
Quote:Monday is a holiday?
Casino open on Monday. 
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(06-05-2012, 11:38 PM)swakoo Wrote: (06-05-2012, 11:12 PM)KopiKat Wrote: My worst experience had been seeing my sell order partially done just before 5pm ie. the rest are now 1st in the sell Q and then seeing the rest not done during the matching period even though there were transactions done at the same price!
Not possible. Unless u had entered sell orders in batches before 5pm, so some done before 5 and remainder may not be 1st in sell Q for matching.
Hmm... now I'm getting a headache trying to both recall and visualise how that could have happened! How about during matching, buyer(s) put in order at sell price and seller(s) put in sell order at buy price, both at same qty? What will be the matching price as for sure the sellers (at a lower bid than my sell price) would have managed to jump my Q. Or just to settle this once and for all, seller(s) Qty is 1 lot fewer (at buy price), so for sure the matching price would be at my Q price but 1 lot of my 1st-in-Q got done (instead of none) and I remained partially done.... Nevertheless, something like that did happened (the partially done part) and I now have my own procedures in place to make sure I don't get into such a situation, especially for those lower value stocks as the minimum transaction charges ($25) may in the worst case add 2.5ct (if only 1 lot done) to my cost (or P/L).
Quote:Quote:Monday is a holiday?
Casino open on Monday.
Woah.. quickly rush to log in... *runs* to get popcorn & coke and stares at the screen, especially on SPH as if my livelihood (of a coffee and KitKat) and reputation solely depends on it....
PS. Sorry.. now $3.85/5 
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(06-05-2012, 11:38 PM)swakoo Wrote: (06-05-2012, 11:12 PM)KopiKat Wrote: My worst experience had been seeing my sell order partially done just before 5pm ie. the rest are now 1st in the sell Q and then seeing the rest not done during the matching period even though there were transactions done at the same price!
Not possible. Unless u had entered sell orders in batches before 5pm, so some done before 5 and remainder may not be 1st in sell Q for matching.
Quote:Monday is a holiday?
Casino open on Monday.
Ha! Ha! casino opens on Monday? Since when casino after opens can close even for a second? Has the the famous unforeseen circumstances visited the casino?
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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(07-05-2012, 08:57 AM)KopiKat Wrote: ..... seller(s) Qty is 1 lot fewer (at buy price), so for sure the matching price would be at my Q price but 1 lot of my 1st-in-Q got done (instead of none) and I remained partially done....
Yes, this is perfectly plausible.
Quote:Woah.. quickly rush to log in... *runs* to get popcorn & coke and stares at the screen, especially on SPH as if my livelihood (of a coffee and KitKat) and reputation solely depends on it....
Congrats, well below your sell price of 3.98(?)! Someone owes you a kopi and kit-kat. (-15 cents from 3.98 to low just now of 3.83)
(07-05-2012, 08:58 AM)Temperament Wrote: Ha! Ha! casino opens on Monday? Since when casino after opens can close even for a second? Has the the famous unforeseen circumstances visited the casino?
Didn't say casino was closed on Sunday.
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07-05-2012, 09:34 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2012, 09:40 AM by Temperament.)
i glad that all my Q at $3.99 are not done before XD. The opening price after XD is $3.85. So if i sell at $3.85 + 7 cents dividend, it will be = $3.92 A different of -7 cents. So you see market's sentiment is still intact. IMO.
Caveat Emptor!
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
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(06-05-2012, 11:38 PM)swakoo Wrote: (06-05-2012, 11:12 PM)KopiKat Wrote: My worst experience had been seeing my sell order partially done just before 5pm ie. the rest are now 1st in the sell Q and then seeing the rest not done during the matching period even though there were transactions done at the same price!
Not possible. Unless u had entered sell orders in batches before 5pm, so some done before 5 and remainder may not be 1st in sell Q for matching.
It is a common experience to see my sell order been broken-down into several transactions before fully sold. It is perfectly possible for partial fulfillment of sale order
I am not familiar with pre-opening and pre-closing, but i can share one experience. I did put in sell order after 5pm, due to last minute decision. i saw the closing price, and decided to put one point lower, the sale order completed, and with the same closing price instead of my asking price, a pleasant surprise.
Quote:Monday is a holiday?
Since Vesak fall on Saturday, it s not a PH on Monday.
“夏则资皮，冬则资纱，旱则资船，水则资车” - 范蠡
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(07-05-2012, 09:31 AM)swakoo Wrote: Congrats, well below your sell price of 3.98(?)! ..... (-15 cents from 3.98 to low just now of 3.83)
A fine-tuning which I'd recently added to my process (after STEng experience) - the "best" selling price is likely the one when it surges a couple more cents in any of the days prior to xd. For eg., STEng surged to $3.30 before it slowly settled to $3.24 on last day of cd ; SPH surged to $3.98 before it slowly settled to $3.93 on last day of cd.
So, anyone out there still believe in EMH (Efficient Market Hypothesis)??
Temperament Wrote:i glad that all my Q at $3.99 are not done before XD. The opening price after XD is $3.85. So if i sell at $3.85 + 7 cents dividend, it will be = $3.92 A different of -7 cents. So you see market's sentiment is still intact. IMO.
I'd strong suggest you either use a Spreadsheet or at least a Calculator (HP Apps also have) to do your sums before you do any selling! BTW, $3.85 + 7ct = $3.92 
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(07-05-2012, 09:38 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: (06-05-2012, 11:38 PM)swakoo Wrote: (06-05-2012, 11:12 PM)KopiKat Wrote: My worst experience had been seeing my sell order partially done just before 5pm ie. the rest are now 1st in the sell Q and then seeing the rest not done during the matching period even though there were transactions done at the same price!
Not possible. Unless u had entered sell orders in batches before 5pm, so some done before 5 and remainder may not be 1st in sell Q for matching.
It is a common experience to see my sell order been broken-down into several transactions before fully sold. It is perfectly possible for partial fulfillment of sale order
I am not familiar with pre-opening and pre-closing, but i can share one experience. I did put in sell order after 5pm, due to last minute decision. i saw the closing price, and decided to put one point lower, the sale order completed, and with the same closing price instead of my asking price, a pleasant surprise.
Quote:Monday is a holiday?
Since Vesak fall on Saturday, it s not a PH on Monday.
Hm... i usually do what you experienced with opening price if i really want to sell. But with an overnight Q. i think i have learned something from your experience of pre-closing trade. Thanks. Nothing can compare to the real thing. That's why it's important to share our experience to help each other. If i read SGX's article about PRE-Opening and Closing Matching of prices, i am not so sure i will absorb the concept so easily. Nothing really can compare to the real thing
WB:-
1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.
Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.
NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.
Posts: 368
Threads: 0
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation:
10
(07-05-2012, 09:38 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: It is a common experience to see my sell order been broken-down into several transactions before fully sold. It is perfectly possible for partial fulfillment of sale order
Yes, if your sell order volume has to be matched with several counter parties on the buy side whose individual buy volume is smaller than your sell volume.
But your single sell order volume cannot be broken down such that some other seller can go in between.
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