Wing Tai Holdings

[freedom]

various prices from 95 - 1.40

Average ard 1.2

I think this and Sing Holdings are the top 2 picks for potential privatisation

talking about privatization.

Will Wing Tai be privatized? at $1, maybe, but will current shareholders accept privatization price of $1? $2+, does Cheng WK look like a fool to you? Where would the money come from to privatize Wing Tai? Either from Cheng WK himself/his family (to gear up himself/him family) or from Wing Tai. highly likely it would be from Wing Tai, which would seriously shrink the balance sheet of Wing Tai (lots of cash will be removed, probably more debt incurred for privatization). Will it help Cheng WK to do bigger and better business with Wing Tai? Absolutely not. the balance sheet is shrunk and geared up, how to do bigger property development projects?

The best for Cheng WK would be maintain the status quo. Cheng WK will be still in control of Wing Tai. He can do almost whatever he wants. The balance sheet of Wing Tai is not bad and growing. Cheng WK can do much bigger property development projects with money from shareholder if required. In the meantime, if the share price is low enough, buy more from open market, it will not hurt.



Why go through all the trouble to gain almost nothing, but likely lose something by privatizing Wing Tai?

Interesting..Didn't know that company can privatised itself...

not exactly the company privatize itself, but to finance its privatization. the owners can use the company's resource to privatize the company. what exactly is the difference?

No, you cannot use company money to privatise. Companies Act does not allow that. Unless its a management buyout where Cheng uses his personal holding or investment vehicle to make a delisting offer. The way to do it is to get back all the shares first and put it under to holding company, den dig the money out to pay off whatever loans you borrowed to finance the delisting offer.

exactly. otherwise, how do you think Cheng WK can privatize Wing Tai at all? according to Forbes, Cheng WK net worth only US$ 305 million, most of the US$305 million was its various holdings within Wing Tai. Is there anyway for Cheng WK to fork out billion CASH from HIS OWN pocket to privatize Wing Tai? dream on.


Sure, Wing Tai Asia can fork out cash to privatize Wing Tai(HK) and Wing Tai(Malaysia), but Wing Tai Asia? no way!

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I think what you mean to say is P/B not NAV. NAV is 2.40...HIGHER THAN WHEELOCK

the track record of Wheelock's boss was far better than Wing Tai's.

When Wing Tai was struggling with its Draycott 8, Wheelock was happily developing Ardmore Park.

Wheelock earned 1 billion pre-tax profit from Ardmore Park, How much did Wing Tai lose in Draycott 8?

BUT THEY MADE LOADS OF MONEY ON HELIOS RESIDENCES, L'VIV and Belle Vue Residences

For track record, they made MILLIONS out of Oleander Towers, Amarayliss ville, Kovan Melody, Riverine by the Park and VisionCrest Residences!

Who cares about Draycott 8?

And Wheelock only has Ardmore to talk about. Wing Tai still has Wing Tai Malaysia and Wing Tai Hong Kong to dig more money out!

how much did Helios Residences really make? it has not been sold out yet.

Wheelock already made another billion from its Scotts Square, not mentioning other projects.

The point is that under the same circumstances, Wheelock is making billions, but Wing Tai is still struggling to make millions only.

Why are they struggling?

Helios acquisition price was only 670psf ppr. Breakeven price around 1500psf. Average selling price around 3200psf. Like that struggle meh?

Helios is alrdy 55% sold. Made more than enough to cover their cost price and make decent profits.

LVIV is 80% sold.

why is it struggling? let's see.

Can Wing Tai just anyhow sell its remaining units in Helios Residences @around 3,200psf?

How about joint venture with City Developments of Jean Nouvel Residences? 100% of Le Nouvel Ardmore?

let's not count the birds in the bush and let's not forget the time value of money.

When Wing Tai acquired Draycotts 8 in 1997 at ridiculous price, it took it years to develop and sell, probably still at loss because of time value of money. (Does anyone wonder why Draycotts 8's lease only left 90 years when it completed?)

[propertyinvestor]

talking about privatization.

Will Wing Tai be privatized? at $1, maybe, but will current shareholders accept privatization price of $1? $2+, does Cheng WK look like a fool to you? Where would the money come from to privatize Wing Tai? Either from Cheng WK himself/his family (to gear up himself/him family) or from Wing Tai. highly likely it would be from Wing Tai, which would seriously shrink the balance sheet of Wing Tai (lots of cash will be removed, probably more debt incurred for privatization). Will it help Cheng WK to do bigger and better business with Wing Tai? Absolutely not. the balance sheet is shrunk and geared up, how to do bigger property development projects?

The best for Cheng WK would be maintain the status quo. Cheng WK will be still in control of Wing Tai. He can do almost whatever he wants. The balance sheet of Wing Tai is not bad and growing. Cheng WK can do much bigger property development projects with money from shareholder if required. In the meantime, if the share price is low enough, buy more from open market, it will not hurt.



Why go through all the trouble to gain almost nothing, but likely lose something by privatizing Wing Tai?

Interesting..Didn't know that company can privatised itself...

not exactly the company privatize itself, but to finance its privatization. the owners can use the company's resource to privatize the company. what exactly is the difference?

No, you cannot use company money to privatise. Companies Act does not allow that. Unless its a management buyout where Cheng uses his personal holding or investment vehicle to make a delisting offer. The way to do it is to get back all the shares first and put it under to holding company, den dig the money out to pay off whatever loans you borrowed to finance the delisting offer.

exactly. otherwise, how do you think Cheng WK can privatize Wing Tai at all? according to Forbes, Cheng WK net worth only US$ 305 million, most of the US$305 million was its various holdings within Wing Tai. Is there anyway for Cheng WK to fork out billion CASH from HIS OWN pocket to privatize Wing Tai? dream on.


Sure, Wing Tai Asia can fork out cash to privatize Wing Tai(HK) and Wing Tai(Malaysia), but Wing Tai Asia? no way!

---

the track record of Wheelock's boss was far better than Wing Tai's.

When Wing Tai was struggling with its Draycott 8, Wheelock was happily developing Ardmore Park.

Wheelock earned 1 billion pre-tax profit from Ardmore Park, How much did Wing Tai lose in Draycott 8?

BUT THEY MADE LOADS OF MONEY ON HELIOS RESIDENCES, L'VIV and Belle Vue Residences

For track record, they made MILLIONS out of Oleander Towers, Amarayliss ville, Kovan Melody, Riverine by the Park and VisionCrest Residences!

Who cares about Draycott 8?

And Wheelock only has Ardmore to talk about. Wing Tai still has Wing Tai Malaysia and Wing Tai Hong Kong to dig more money out!

how much did Helios Residences really make? it has not been sold out yet.

Wheelock already made another billion from its Scotts Square, not mentioning other projects.

The point is that under the same circumstances, Wheelock is making billions, but Wing Tai is still struggling to make millions only.

Why are they struggling?

Helios acquisition price was only 670psf ppr. Breakeven price around 1500psf. Average selling price around 3200psf. Like that struggle meh?

Helios is alrdy 55% sold. Made more than enough to cover their cost price and make decent profits.

LVIV is 80% sold.

why is it struggling? let's see.

Can Wing Tai just anyhow sell its remaining units in Helios Residences @around 3,200psf?

How about joint venture with City Developments of Jean Nouvel Residences? 100% of Le Nouvel Ardmore?

let's not count the birds in the bush and let's not forget the time value of money.

When Wing Tai acquired Draycotts 8 in 1997 at ridiculous price, it took it years to develop and sell, probably still at loss because of time value of money. (Does anyone wonder why Draycotts 8's lease only left 90 years when it completed?)

People at Cheng WK level has powerful friends like Walter Kwok and his family who are BILLIONAIRES. Not a problem for him and his family to structure deals and agreement to take Wing Tai Asia private. There is no need for him to make a chain offer for Wing Tai Malaysia and Wing Tai HK since he already has a controlling share in both of them.

Why should Wing Tai firesale their property? They have already recovered Cost of Construction and land. The rest of the units are pure profits! And the development is freehold.

Acquisition cost of Le novel ardmore and Jean nouvel residences are less than 800psf/ppr. You go and find me a seller who will sell land in the ardmore area at this price lah.

[freedom]

I am sure the same question might have been asked when Wing Tai acquired land where Draycotts 8 sits in 1997. "You go and find me a seller who will sell land in the ardmore area at this price lah."

what happened after that? I am sure some developers did go and find it. Otherwise, how did Wing Tai get Ardmore Park land @800psf, even below Draycotts 8 price, some more it is freehold, draycotts 8 only 99 year lease.

When property is hot, of course, difficult to find cheap land bank. When time is tough, get guts and buy cheap. That's how David Lawrence made Wheelock what it is today.

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CITY Developments and Wing Tai have teamed up to buy Anderson 18 for $477.7 million, or $1,650 per square foot (psf) of potential gross floor area, inclusive of an estimated $40.11 million development charge.

When Wing Tai announced its acquisition of Ardmore Point in October last year at $201 million, the DC was assumed to be $31 million, reflecting an all-in unit land price of $1,369 per square foot per plot ratio.

so not 800 psf, probably not really lower than Draycotts 8, but around the same price.

assume 5% for discount rate, the price should be around 1,747 psf today. by 2014, around 2,022 psf. given enough time (20, 30 years), I am sure I can find cheaper landbank in Ardmore area. the power of time value of money.

[propertyinvestor]

Wheelock has a lousy track record when it comes to investments also. Anyhow pay $3/share for SC Global at the peak in 2007

[freedom]

Wheelock has a lousy track record when it comes to investments also. Anyhow pay $3/share for SC Global at the peak in 2007

luckily, investment is not the main business of Wheelock.

[propertyinvestor]

Cheng Wai keung has been conspicuously missing in action for quite some time. Probably planning something material with regards to Wing Tai

[propertyinvestor]

Profits from Floridian is expected to boost Wing Tai's Profit further upwards!

[yjcai]

Profits from Floridian is expected to boost Wing Tai's Profit further upwards!

How about their retail business? Looks promising.

[ngcheeki]

Profits from Floridian is expected to boost Wing Tai's Profit further upwards!

How about their retail business? Looks promising.

Based on the Wing Tai AR 2011, Retail Sector only contributed 2.448 Mil (2011) and 1.654 Mil (2010). Hence, the addition to bottom line is not significant.

One of Wing Tai projects, Belle Vue which was obtained T.O.P on Dec 2010 are selling pretty well recently if we assumed that caveat lodged are new sales. See the following for more information:

BELLE VUE RESIDENCES OXLEY WALK Condominium 1 12,230,000 4,887 Strata 2,503 Apr-12
BELLE VUE RESIDENCES OXLEY WALK Condominium 1 6,601,400 2,303 Strata 2,866 Apr-12
BELLE VUE RESIDENCES OXLEY WALK Condominium 1 6,720,200 2,303 Strata 2,917 Mar-12
BELLE VUE RESIDENCES OXLEY WALK Condominium 1 4,435,782 2,067 Strata 2,146 Mar-12
BELLE VUE RESIDENCES OXLEY WALK Condominium 1 4,697,750 2,185 Strata 2,150 Mar-12
BELLE VUE RESIDENCES OXLEY WALK Condominium 1 6,021,400 2,530 Strata 2,380 Mar-12
BELLE VUE RESIDENCES OXLEY WALK Condominium 1 7,050,000 3,175 Strata 2,220 Mar-12

Besides, there is also Helios Residence which obtained T.O.P on 2011 sold 3 units in March and 1 unit in April.

HELIOS RESIDENCES CAIRNHILL CIRCLE Apartment 1 7,112,400 2,002 Strata 3,552 Apr-12
HELIOS RESIDENCES CAIRNHILL CIRCLE Apartment 1 4,228,300 1,281 Strata 3,301 Mar-12
HELIOS RESIDENCES CAIRNHILL CIRCLE Apartment 1 6,001,900 1,668 Strata 3,597 Mar-12
HELIOS RESIDENCES CAIRNHILL CIRCLE Apartment 1 5,350,000 1,668 Strata 3,207 Mar-12

vested

[propertyinvestor]

I hope it drops some more! Going to pick them up cheap! Since its unlikely Sing holdings will drop anytime soon...got some spare cash to play around with.